Author of NOISE: A Manifesto Modernising Motherhood: Danusia Malina-Derben
Danusia Malina-Derben is a mother of ten children, and still her own woman. From teen mother to tenured Organisational Behavior and Development academic, and onto award-winning, internationally published leadership expert. Danusia traded academia to head a global firm that fixes corporate boardrooms and develops top talent. She also hosts two critically acclaimed companion podcasts; School for Mothers and School for Fathers. Danusia has received praise and recognition from The Sunday Times to Metro, Psychologies to Good Housekeeping. She lives on the edge of Exmoor, UK with her family, and their mini-dachshund, Dickie. Visit her online at danusiamalinaderben.com
Here she answers the Mama Sex Six:
What is the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the phrase "mama sex"?
Honestly? The first thing that comes to mind with the phrase “mama sex” is a double take to read the words again. A, “run that past me again would you?” moment.
Mama Sex. Sexual activities that mothers take part in. I’m shaking my head and asking myself, how different is sex from sex that mamas have.
Except.
Of course, it’s loaded.
To hear the word mama and even to speak the word mama is to evoke the primal all-giving ever present woman who nurtures those she creates. But it goes deeper than that.
Mama as a word elicits a sense of the feminine oozing earthy maternal feelings. Set beside the word sex it’s almost discordant like the playing of piano notes gone wrong. Culturally to have mama + sex beside one another is to invite raised eyebrows because, seriously, who wants to think of mamas sucking, licking + fucking?
What inspired you to work/create/advocate on the topic of "mama sex"?
I was completing my book, NOISE: A Manifesto Modernising Motherhood (Triumph Press, 2021) with the premise of it being that what we’re taught to believe about motherhood is powerful noise; enduring beliefs we’re told about motherhood, as if they’re gospel. It would have been a travesty, wouldn’t it, to write a motherhood book and fail to include a chapter on mothers and sexuality. What I wanted to explore and bust open was the notion that motherhood is a monolithic experience, and the same with our sexualities. Feedback I’ve received from readers says it hits the spot, which is great because change comes when we think critically about what we take for granted.
In your work/practice/art, what are the biggest hurdles mothers are facing in terms of their sexuality?
The biggest hurdle is that mothers are depicted as separate from our sexuality - for instance, within movies, women are not both mothers and sexual people. In fact, while women are often portrayed as sexual before marriage/partnership, there’s a lack of images reflecting this sexuality after marriage/partnership and children. The hurdle is that we must choose one or the other. Motherhood or sexuality, that’s the lie.
The effect of mothers’ representations is that the confidence of mothers is undermined through either negative portrayals or an overall lack of representation. While magazines are full of advice for mothers, there is little recognition of the influence mothers have in other areas of life, and certainly little recognition of us as sexual beings; motherhood and sexuality are often seen as mutually exclusive topics.
What do you think society at large should know about motherhood and sexuality? And what is society getting wrong right now in regards to it?
Society (at least westernised whitecentric narratives that come from this) hold motherhood and sexuality in narrow ways. Procreation is an obvious legitimate way sexuality is linked to motherhood. To get pregnant, for some, involves sexual activity and it’s also important to remember conceiving is achieved in a multitude of ways, isn’t it?!
Mothers are human beings who also happen to be raising children while being ourselves, and that includes experiencing desires, drives, wants and needs that people who are not mothers also have. To treat women who become mothers as a separate category is ludicrous and needs to be questioned. What are the benefits to society to treat mothers as both asexual (prim, frigid, disinterested in pleasure for pleasure’s sake) and sexual (available for men’s gaze, displaying flesh, being fuckable)? Mother’s sexuality is judged as too little and/or too much which leaves motherhood and sexuality in contested confusion.
What piece of sex advice would you give mothers? Was there something you wish someone had told you?
My sex advice to mothers is to listen to yourself and embrace who you are right now rather than who you might feel you ought to be. I’ve found that sexualised messages through media instil ideas about what it means to be sexy. That there’s somehow a formula to being sexy and feeling it but these don’t necessarily chime with how our desires are. For instance, it’s often put forward that bedroom athletics are the pinnacle of sexual experience as if this shows a level of sexual prowess. Whereas, cosy fucks, perfunctory wham bam thank you kind of sex often oil the wheels of relationships but aren’t shown/spoken about enough or even at all, in some circles. The pressure to fit a certain kind of sexuality rather than allowing our sexual self to unfold, emerge and be celebrated is a much more compassionate way forward. And that includes the absence of urges too...
Let's amplify our voice: Who are some mamas you love following on social media?
In Indian society conversations around sex and sexuality are done in hushed tones, and women speaking about their sexual desires and fantasies, raise eyebrows - I’m a big fan of sex educator, intimacy coach, and TEDx speaker, Pallavi Barnwal @pallavibarnwal1 who is breaking quite a few stereotypes. She quit her corporate job to work towards creating a world where sex is accepted as a part of lives rather than something to resent/hide. As she says, “When sexual desires and fantasies are suppressed and are not given the right outlet they affect our whole identity and life satisfaction!” Remember this: stimulating the clit is one of THE most important things to do …
Hollie McNish @holliepoetry and Kate Baer @katejbaer have both been guests on my podcast, School for Mothers. They’re contributing to fresh explorations of raw, tender motherhood, including sexuality. Listen into our conversations and seek out their words.
More on Danusia’s work:
NOISE: A Manifesto Modernising Motherhood (2021). An urgent and vital unpacking of modern motherhood, exploring the age-old question: How can I be a Mother and still be ME?
The School for Mothers Podcast: The SFM Podcast disrupts the idea that once we’re a mother, life is done. Join Danusia as she interviews badass mothers about how they’re answering the question: How can I be a Mother and Still be Me? Be prepared for truth bombs, potty mouth moments and big dollops of inspiration.
On Instagram: @school.for.mothers.podcast
On Facebook: School for Mothers
On LinkedIn: Danusia Malina-Derben
