Perinatal Psychologist +Founder of Parenthood in Mind: Julianne Boutaleb
My name is Julianne Boutaleb and I am a Perinatal Psychologist (CPsychol AFBPsS), that is a psychologist who specialises in offering psychological support to parents and parents to be from trying to conceive through to 1 year post birth. I specialise in offering therapy to individuals and couples struggling to conceive or who need fertility treatment eg IVF, donor conception, surrogacy to become parents. I am the Founder and Clinical Director of Parenthood in Mind, a specialist psychology practice for parents and parents-to-be, their bumps and babies.
Here Julianne answer the Mama Sex Six:
What is the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the phrase "mama sex"?
Some of the first connotations of this phrase for me are pain, trauma and loss. And I’m sure this is linked to the sort of work I do supporting couples and individuals for whom ‘mama sex’ has become very negative. In stark contrast to other parents-to-be who can conceive spontaneously, many of the individuals and couples I see have spent years in a cycle of trying to conceive, hopelessness and despair. When they come to see me, sex has often become arduous, painful and mechanical in their pursuit for a baby. If you add to this the possibility that they may also be undergoing fertility treatment, sex may be completely off the table for many of these couples. And what I then see (to tweak a phrase first coined by Gwyneth Paltrow) is an ‘unconscious uncoupling’ of the couple – a gradual sense of numbing and emotional distancing, just going through the motions to become parents.
What inspired you to work/create/advocate on the topic of "mama sex"?
Freud famously said that the ego is first and foremost a body ego – in other words who we are is experienced primarily in our bodies. And I am often struck by how disorientating it can be to our sense of self when we struggle to get pregnant. For many who have enjoyed a full and satisfying sex life previous to trying for a baby, it is a shock, a trauma even to learn that our bodies cannot do this thing that 1) we assumed it could and 2) that everyone else’s body can. And I think these feelings of trauma often find expression in the sex we have or don’t have. As Bessel van der Kolk, an expert in PTSD states the body remembers and holds this trauma. So when a couple experiences difficulties conceiving or pregnancy loss, sexual intimacy may be avoided to avoid the pain and trauma.
For those undergoing IVF, the invasive and fragmentary nature of assisted reproduction also has negative impacts on their sex life. Fantasies of being excluded, feelings of shame around needing help to get pregnant, as well as the iatrogenic impact of multiple medical procedures on one’s body (be that multiple daily injections, transvaginal scans or having to masturbate in a sterile, clinical setting) all have potentially negative impacts on a couple’s sex life.
Add in a difficult pregnancy and even further trauma such as birth or breastfeeding trauma and couples may find it very hard to rekindle sexual intimacy. For same sex couples other dynamics may be at play including having to include a donor in the reproductive story as well as decisions around who should carry the pregnancy.
In your work/practice/art, what are the biggest hurdles mothers are facing in terms of their sexuality?
Well quite a few if my last answer if anything to go by! Although we now have the concept of matresence (Athan, 2015) to better understand the changes women go through in the transition to parenthood, still not enough has been included about sex and sexuality. And societally there is a clear dichotomy between women’s sexual bodies and maternal bodies – even when the same parts of the body are clearly involved!
Messages around how mothers should dress and behave in public eg clear admonitions around breastfeeding in public clearly highlights this binary fascism. But what I see most women grapple with are questions after becoming a mother (especially if there has been trauma and loss on the way in the ways I’ve described previously), questions like:
How do I come back from this?
Who am I now?
How do I integrate the different parts of me? Is there enough of me to go around?
How do I switch in and out of being a mother and lover in the same body? How do I move past trauma and loss?
Are there relatable role models out there for me? Women attempting to have an active sex life - either with or without a partner-AND also being mothers.
I also don’t think there’s enough information in antenatal classes about how both male and female libido may be impacted by infertility, hormonal and physical changes in pregnancy, birth and the post partum period. And how these changes may impact them in the transition to parenthood.
What do you think society at large should know about motherhood and sexuality? And what is society getting wrong right now in regards to it?
Maternal sexuality does not exist in a vacuum. If the societal expectations of mothers don’t change, it is highly likely that maternal libido will continue to get buried under an ever growing list of household chores and emotional caretaking. I see younger mothers crumbling under the motherload. And I also see the rise of a very ‘all or nothing’, perfectionistic approach to mothering that leaves women with no energy for themselves, or their sex lives. Society needs to understand that mothers need time, childcare support, better care in maternity settings, if they are to be able to live full and diverse sex lives. And why does this matter?
Because rates of relationship breakdown are rising, and the perinatal period is a documented time of risk for relationships. We need to rethink some of the messages around becoming parents – the idea that we just bounce back is unrealistic. I think we also have to re-examine societal assumptions around maternal desire and sexuality. Does sex always have to be penetrative? Or partnered? How might sexual desire change-for better or worse- after we become mothers?
We need to normalise what sexuality and sex looks like after becoming a mother…
What piece of sex advice would you give mothers? Was there something you wish someone had told you?
Give yourself time. Take time to physically and psychologically recover after becoming a mother. Take time away from mothering. Don’t lose sight of the things that give you pleasure. Don’t pour yourself into mothering. Do not bury yourself under your baby’s needs. Look after your body. Tending to your needs is not selfish. Do not expect yourself to ‘bounce back’. For fathers, partners and non-gestational mothers share more of the ‘motherload ‘. Be open to exploring different ways of getting sexually intimate.
Let's amplify our voice: Who are some mamas you love following on social media?
Cath Counihan @psychotherapy_mum
Dr Emma Svanberg aka @mumologist
Catherine Topham Sly @insightandconnection
Dr Sophie Brock @drsophiebrock
Services Julianne Offers:
I specialise in offering therapy to individuals and couples struggling to conceive or who need fertility treatment eg IVF, donor conception, surrogacy to become parents.
@parenthoodinmind on Instagram
